I have a question about flying into lakes with slush on the ice. Do you get
stuck and can't move or is it more like trying to take off from glassy
water? All my ski flying so far has been from feilds and we had some
freezing rain a while ago so the snow is very crusty. So much so that I
think I get off as fast as if I was on pavement. I still have my prop
pitched the same as I had it when my plane was on floats so my takeoffs are
very short. I guess what I want to know is are all planes equally affected
by slush or can a rebel with it's high lift wing and slow takeoff speed
overcome slushy snow.
Drew
Drew
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Ski flying OFF TOPIC
-
Wayne G. O'Shea
Ski flying OFF TOPIC
Drew, I wasn't going to type it all again so I have pasted below a reply I
posted on the RAA National list a month or so again. Any other questions
just ask! Reply was based for straight skis, but you will get the idea!
Wayne
...................................
....anything white is now a legal runway (except for maybe a school
track in a built up area). We land in any field on the point here, as has
been done for years, even though officially it is all within town limits.
When there are 40 to 80 acre open fields, we don't consider that as a "built
up area". Of course we know how owns the fields and know that they are just
hay fields and not some crop that may be damaged from snow pack.
Landing on the lake is safe in most cases. If there are snow machines
sitting around or 4 wheels then the ice is definitely thick enough. Just the
ice huts out, be careful as these guys really take some chances in early and
late winter with huts out on 2 or 3" of ice. With the weight spread out on
skis the airplane is probably safer than you are when getting out on foot.
Rick Scott use to fly around with that Mono float still under his Chinook in
the winter, with skis mounted to the retract gear. He would land and throw
an axe (on a rope) at the ice before he stepped out! Guess that's one of the
"pissers" with him being taken away from us too soon.....he was the safest
one of our bunch when it came to maintenance and being prepared for
anything. He was also the only one that wore a Mustang Floater suit for ice
flying. We're all stupid and throw on the big heavy parka one piece snow
suits that you would have on to ride the tractor when blowing the laneway.
That said and giving it some thought I think I'll pick up a floater suit
when the spring sales come out, to be better prepared for next season.
As for ice huts, I fly pretty low when I'm out over the ice (and more than
500' from shore) and generally there is always someone that comes out of an
ice hut and gives a big wave. Never the finger or "arm" just a friendly
wave, like come on down...give me a ride and I'll let you use my fishing
gear. If landing I just make sure I land at least 500 feet away from the
huts and then taxi right on over to them if I see someone I know. Never had
a conflict, just watch out for the snow machines and ATV drivers that whiz
by and throw ice chunks up off of their tracks.
The big thing on the lake and why our flyin is currently postponed is
overflow. This water between the ice and the top snow can strand you (or
worse yet flip you on your back) and you WILL be walking home. What I do,
when unsure, is land.... keep the speed up..... forward stick (tail dragger)
to put some weight on the skis (like a wheel landing) and stay moving for
about 1000' and then take off again. Go play for a few minutes....then come
back and see if your tracks are still white or have turned dark. IF dark..go
find somewhere else (NO IF's OR BUTS) and if white you should be okay but
still stay cautious. Land, make a nice long track and then taxi around in an
oval and come back to the start of your landing marks to park. This way you
have already prepared your departure runway. Otherwise you may find your
self packing out a trail on snowshoes (you are carrying a set right!??).
With a light airplane you may not push the snow down hard enough to bring up
the water during your touch and go, so the departure path prep is essential
for when you stop and then find yourself stepping out into 4" of slush. Get
back in before she freezes in and follow those tracks you made and get the
Heck out of there.
If you ever land on a lake and the sound of things suddenly changes, just as
you are slowing down, put the boots to it and get out of there. Can't
describe the sound, but you only need to hear it once and you'll never
forget it .....and hopefully you have enough power to get the airplane back
up to at least ground effect speed and out of the OPEN water that was hidden
under a light crust of ice/snow!! Sometimes it's just deep overflow on top
of the ice and other times it could be all lake right to the bottom! One is
of course worse than the other, but neither will make your day!
As for landing in those fields. You'd be best to play at your home field off
in the unpacked stuff, to see how your skis perform first if the snow is
deep. Easier to find help there while you figure out what it can handle.
Some skis/airplanes like mine go just about anywhere. I can sit right on top
of 3 ' of powder snow (wheel skis are 20" x 68" EACH). Others can only
operate from a packed surface or ice surface, so something you have to
figure out for your self somewhat. Like I said, carry a set of snowshoes
(the mountaineering rectangle shaped style are easy to store/use and even
run on if being chased by something with teeth!!
), or the old oval style
wood paratrooper snow shoes are nice and compact if you can find an old set
hiding in someone's garage)
As for registered airport usage. With our old Airport Manager at Midland....
he allowed straight ski usage for a Challenger owner member of ours to take
off/land in the Southern most tie down area (no airplanes use this area in
winter). Other years it was normal to see someone land beside the runway,
outside the windrow from snowplow ops on the West side, and you could even
taxi right around to the back side of the fuel pumps. Best thing would be to
call any aerodrome you have eyes on attending and see if their facility is
conducive to ski equipped aircraft..considering where they put snow banks
etc. Another option is to get there bright and early after a snow fall and
you should have a nice surface to land on top of the pavement if the sun
hasn't gotten to it.
Any other questions, just ask. I might have an answer or hear say to pass
on.
Cheers,
Wayne
...........................................................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: Ski flying OFF TOPIC
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posted on the RAA National list a month or so again. Any other questions
just ask! Reply was based for straight skis, but you will get the idea!
Wayne
...................................
....anything white is now a legal runway (except for maybe a school
track in a built up area). We land in any field on the point here, as has
been done for years, even though officially it is all within town limits.
When there are 40 to 80 acre open fields, we don't consider that as a "built
up area". Of course we know how owns the fields and know that they are just
hay fields and not some crop that may be damaged from snow pack.
Landing on the lake is safe in most cases. If there are snow machines
sitting around or 4 wheels then the ice is definitely thick enough. Just the
ice huts out, be careful as these guys really take some chances in early and
late winter with huts out on 2 or 3" of ice. With the weight spread out on
skis the airplane is probably safer than you are when getting out on foot.
Rick Scott use to fly around with that Mono float still under his Chinook in
the winter, with skis mounted to the retract gear. He would land and throw
an axe (on a rope) at the ice before he stepped out! Guess that's one of the
"pissers" with him being taken away from us too soon.....he was the safest
one of our bunch when it came to maintenance and being prepared for
anything. He was also the only one that wore a Mustang Floater suit for ice
flying. We're all stupid and throw on the big heavy parka one piece snow
suits that you would have on to ride the tractor when blowing the laneway.
That said and giving it some thought I think I'll pick up a floater suit
when the spring sales come out, to be better prepared for next season.
As for ice huts, I fly pretty low when I'm out over the ice (and more than
500' from shore) and generally there is always someone that comes out of an
ice hut and gives a big wave. Never the finger or "arm" just a friendly
wave, like come on down...give me a ride and I'll let you use my fishing
gear. If landing I just make sure I land at least 500 feet away from the
huts and then taxi right on over to them if I see someone I know. Never had
a conflict, just watch out for the snow machines and ATV drivers that whiz
by and throw ice chunks up off of their tracks.
The big thing on the lake and why our flyin is currently postponed is
overflow. This water between the ice and the top snow can strand you (or
worse yet flip you on your back) and you WILL be walking home. What I do,
when unsure, is land.... keep the speed up..... forward stick (tail dragger)
to put some weight on the skis (like a wheel landing) and stay moving for
about 1000' and then take off again. Go play for a few minutes....then come
back and see if your tracks are still white or have turned dark. IF dark..go
find somewhere else (NO IF's OR BUTS) and if white you should be okay but
still stay cautious. Land, make a nice long track and then taxi around in an
oval and come back to the start of your landing marks to park. This way you
have already prepared your departure runway. Otherwise you may find your
self packing out a trail on snowshoes (you are carrying a set right!??).
With a light airplane you may not push the snow down hard enough to bring up
the water during your touch and go, so the departure path prep is essential
for when you stop and then find yourself stepping out into 4" of slush. Get
back in before she freezes in and follow those tracks you made and get the
Heck out of there.
If you ever land on a lake and the sound of things suddenly changes, just as
you are slowing down, put the boots to it and get out of there. Can't
describe the sound, but you only need to hear it once and you'll never
forget it .....and hopefully you have enough power to get the airplane back
up to at least ground effect speed and out of the OPEN water that was hidden
under a light crust of ice/snow!! Sometimes it's just deep overflow on top
of the ice and other times it could be all lake right to the bottom! One is
of course worse than the other, but neither will make your day!
As for landing in those fields. You'd be best to play at your home field off
in the unpacked stuff, to see how your skis perform first if the snow is
deep. Easier to find help there while you figure out what it can handle.
Some skis/airplanes like mine go just about anywhere. I can sit right on top
of 3 ' of powder snow (wheel skis are 20" x 68" EACH). Others can only
operate from a packed surface or ice surface, so something you have to
figure out for your self somewhat. Like I said, carry a set of snowshoes
(the mountaineering rectangle shaped style are easy to store/use and even
run on if being chased by something with teeth!!
), or the old oval stylewood paratrooper snow shoes are nice and compact if you can find an old set
hiding in someone's garage)
As for registered airport usage. With our old Airport Manager at Midland....
he allowed straight ski usage for a Challenger owner member of ours to take
off/land in the Southern most tie down area (no airplanes use this area in
winter). Other years it was normal to see someone land beside the runway,
outside the windrow from snowplow ops on the West side, and you could even
taxi right around to the back side of the fuel pumps. Best thing would be to
call any aerodrome you have eyes on attending and see if their facility is
conducive to ski equipped aircraft..considering where they put snow banks
etc. Another option is to get there bright and early after a snow fall and
you should have a nice surface to land on top of the pavement if the sun
hasn't gotten to it.
Any other questions, just ask. I might have an answer or hear say to pass
on.
Cheers,
Wayne
...........................................................
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: Ski flying OFF TOPIC
getI have a question about flying into lakes with slush on the ice. Do you
arestuck and can't move or is it more like trying to take off from glassy
water? All my ski flying so far has been from feilds and we had some
freezing rain a while ago so the snow is very crusty. So much so that I
think I get off as fast as if I was on pavement. I still have my prop
pitched the same as I had it when my plane was on floats so my takeoffs
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*very short. I guess what I want to know is are all planes equally affected
by slush or can a rebel with it's high lift wing and slow takeoff speed
overcome slushy snow.
Drew
Drew
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