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Control Tie Rods

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stevew

Control Tie Rods

Post by stevew » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

Hi all
Has anyone noticed that the tie rod ends on the short tube from the control
yoke to the first bellcrank, if installed by MAM manuel, will not rotate thru
the full movement of the stick (ELEVATOR UP AND DOWN)without the heads of the
rods contacting the washers? I checked this on another Rebel flying here on
the field and the lock nuts on the rods were loose. Only solution I can think
of is to install small bushings instead of washers to allow more rotation but
the working surface of the end moves partially off the center ball. No problem
to unlock the pinch nut with the control stick and never think of it again.

Steve W.
Rebel 637



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Wayne G. O'Shea

Control Tie Rods

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

Hi Steve! This has been covered many times here. If you actually pay
attention to MAM's instructions they leave a nut off one end of that push
pull...which I refuse to do. Don't know how many repetative motions
threading and unthreading will take, but sooner or later that alum plug is
going to give up it's threads.

Drop by an auto parts store and get a short piece of 5/16 steel/stainless
brake line tubing. Cut two slices about 3/16 or so wide. Put one above and
one below the rod end, install the bolt and retaining penny washer (-3's
work best drilled to 1/4" for all the rod ends!). Then, after you have set
up your full forward and aft stick travel, tighten the jam nuts to allow
full stick travel with binding before the nut wants to loosen. Takes a bit
of playing, but you can get them to stay locked, give full travel and not
bottom the rod end. The slim slices of tube allow the rod end ball to pivot
through a few extra degrees before it bottoms out.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Control Tie Rods

Hi all
Has anyone noticed that the tie rod ends on the short tube from the
control
yoke to the first bellcrank, if installed by MAM manuel, will not rotate
thru
the full movement of the stick (ELEVATOR UP AND DOWN)without the heads of
the
rods contacting the washers? I checked this on another Rebel flying here
on
the field and the lock nuts on the rods were loose. Only solution I can
think
of is to install small bushings instead of washers to allow more rotation
but
the working surface of the end moves partially off the center ball. No
problem
to unlock the pinch nut with the control stick and never think of it
again.
Steve W.
Rebel 637



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Wayne G. O'Shea

Control Tie Rods

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

That's 5/16 OD tube, so the ID is 1/4"..Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Control Tie Rods

Hi Steve! This has been covered many times here. If you actually pay
attention to MAM's instructions they leave a nut off one end of that push
pull...which I refuse to do. Don't know how many repetative motions
threading and unthreading will take, but sooner or later that alum plug is
going to give up it's threads.

Drop by an auto parts store and get a short piece of 5/16 steel/stainless
brake line tubing. Cut two slices about 3/16 or so wide. Put one above and
one below the rod end, install the bolt and retaining penny washer (-3's
work best drilled to 1/4" for all the rod ends!). Then, after you have set
up your full forward and aft stick travel, tighten the jam nuts to allow
full stick travel with binding before the nut wants to loosen. Takes a bit
of playing, but you can get them to stay locked, give full travel and not
bottom the rod end. The slim slices of tube allow the rod end ball to
pivot
through a few extra degrees before it bottoms out.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Control Tie Rods

Hi all
Has anyone noticed that the tie rod ends on the short tube from the
control
yoke to the first bellcrank, if installed by MAM manuel, will not rotate
thru
the full movement of the stick (ELEVATOR UP AND DOWN)without the heads
of
the
rods contacting the washers? I checked this on another Rebel flying
here
on
the field and the lock nuts on the rods were loose. Only solution I can
think
of is to install small bushings instead of washers to allow more
rotation
but
the working surface of the end moves partially off the center ball. No
problem
to unlock the pinch nut with the control stick and never think of it
again.
Steve W.
Rebel 637



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Keith Oliver

Control Tie Rods

Post by Keith Oliver » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

Is there a photo of this anywhere ?
Thanks

Keith Oliver
Elite #654 TD
N654ME (reserved)
Farmingdale, Maine



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Control Tie Rods


That's 5/16 OD tube, so the ID is 1/4"..Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Control Tie Rods

Hi Steve! This has been covered many times here. If you actually pay
attention to MAM's instructions they leave a nut off one end of that push
pull...which I refuse to do. Don't know how many repetative motions
threading and unthreading will take, but sooner or later that alum plug is
going to give up it's threads.

Drop by an auto parts store and get a short piece of 5/16 steel/stainless
brake line tubing. Cut two slices about 3/16 or so wide. Put one above and
one below the rod end, install the bolt and retaining penny washer (-3's
work best drilled to 1/4" for all the rod ends!). Then, after you have set
up your full forward and aft stick travel, tighten the jam nuts to allow
full stick travel with binding before the nut wants to loosen. Takes a bit
of playing, but you can get them to stay locked, give full travel and not
bottom the rod end. The slim slices of tube allow the rod end ball to
pivot
through a few extra degrees before it bottoms out.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <stevew@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:24 PM
Subject: Control Tie Rods

Hi all
Has anyone noticed that the tie rod ends on the short tube from the
control
yoke to the first bellcrank, if installed by MAM manuel, will not rotate
thru
the full movement of the stick (ELEVATOR UP AND DOWN)without the heads
of
the
rods contacting the washers? I checked this on another Rebel flying
here
on
the field and the lock nuts on the rods were loose. Only solution I can
think
of is to install small bushings instead of washers to allow more
rotation
but
the working surface of the end moves partially off the center ball. No
problem
to unlock the pinch nut with the control stick and never think of it
again.
Steve W.
Rebel 637



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Ralph Baker

control tie rods

Post by Ralph Baker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

I also wrestled with this and tried Wayne's solution without getting it
to work properly for me. There was a Kitplanes article on the Elite
earlier this year that showed an elaborate machined device to allow
rotation as well. After many attempts to come up with a good
alternative I discovered what Aircraft Spruce calls "rod end swivel
bearing" on page 131 of the latest catalog at US$23.85. More expensive
than Wayne's fix by far but solves the problem. It is necessary to turn
a two diameter aluminum plug to fit inside the swivel bearing at one end
and inside the short control tube at the other. The control tube must
be shortened appropriately. An internaly threaded rod end must be
purchased to fit the threaded end of the swivel bearing and bolt to the
bell crank. CAUTION: the 1/2" end of the plug must be length fitted to
prevent the retaining washer inside the swivel bearing from backing out
and introducing slop.

The swivel bearing / aluminum plug will be secured with bolts after
packing the internal roller bearings with MoS2 grease. The larger end
of the plug will be drilled for internal rivet clearance and secured
with the standard stainless steel rivets.

This swivel bearing allows 360 degree rotation and locking nuts at all
rod ends. It will be an inspection point at annual. I agree with Wayne
that the idea of the steel rod end turning constantly within analuminum
thread is unacceptable.
Ralph Baker
Elite 624E


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Wayne G. O'Shea

control tie rods

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

It is a possiblity that you won't get enough travel, but you should be able
to if you negate some of that unnecessary forward stick. You don't need that
25* down elevator for anything! On my Rebel I have the old mixer assembly in
the back (you don't have these in Elites/SR's/Meese) so I don't have as much
stick travel as most might. However, we did upgrade Howard's mixer to the
new (1995) "less sensitive" model and where still able to set his push-pull
rod end up this way with spacer "tubes". Will see if I can find time to take
a picture and post later tonight.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:39 AM
Subject: control tie rods

I also wrestled with this and tried Wayne's solution without getting it
to work properly for me. There was a Kitplanes article on the Elite
earlier this year that showed an elaborate machined device to allow
rotation as well. After many attempts to come up with a good
alternative I discovered what Aircraft Spruce calls "rod end swivel
bearing" on page 131 of the latest catalog at US$23.85. More expensive
than Wayne's fix by far but solves the problem. It is necessary to turn
a two diameter aluminum plug to fit inside the swivel bearing at one end
and inside the short control tube at the other. The control tube must
be shortened appropriately. An internaly threaded rod end must be
purchased to fit the threaded end of the swivel bearing and bolt to the
bell crank. CAUTION: the 1/2" end of the plug must be length fitted to
prevent the retaining washer inside the swivel bearing from backing out
and introducing slop.

The swivel bearing / aluminum plug will be secured with bolts after
packing the internal roller bearings with MoS2 grease. The larger end
of the plug will be drilled for internal rivet clearance and secured
with the standard stainless steel rivets.

This swivel bearing allows 360 degree rotation and locking nuts at all
rod ends. It will be an inspection point at annual. I agree with Wayne
that the idea of the steel rod end turning constantly within analuminum
thread is unacceptable.
Ralph Baker
Elite 624E


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steve whitenect

Control Tie Rods

Post by steve whitenect » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:52 am

Hi Wayne and thanks for the reply
Tried to search the archives on the subject but didn't get any hits except
the recent ones. The bushings are the only way to go. If an inspector saw
the setup without a lock nut and the threads continually moving in the
barrels, imagine what fun he would have. Will have to see how much surface
contact is lost thru the extra movement around the center ball.

Steve W.

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