MAM MP-14 FWF kits

[Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb]

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some more
parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does anyone
have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what was
on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that would
be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting up
the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net





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[Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb]

Colleen gave me those prices on 27 June in an e-mail. Those are US bucks by
the way.... $528 sounds pretty steep for a tank. Someone told me it's
really an air filter container from a semi truck with some mods, will have
to see if there's a suitable replacement somewhere. For that money, I'm
sure F. Atlee could weld up a beautiful stainless tank to specs. Besides
the tank and the cooler, I think you can get most everything else off of
Kimball and the local aircraft hardware store. The Fuel kit didn't seem to
have much in it you couldn't get elsewhere too. I don't know what a Yak
cowl is going for these days. I just got the feeling the MAM prices were
much greater than the sum of their parts.

Wes
Moose#208

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski@mwutah.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Wes,
When did you get the price quote for the cowl?? I thought the price for
the other parts was a little high too. I was just quoted 700 Canadian or
528 US for just the oil tank. Going to try and find out where they are
getting them. Doesn't look like the YAK or Pitts 12 oil tank would fit

but

not sure.

Scott
Moose #174

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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Wes,
When did you get the price quote for the cowl?? I thought the price for
the other parts was a little high too. I was just quoted 700 Canadian or
528 US for just the oil tank. Going to try and find out where they are
getting them. Doesn't look like the YAK or Pitts 12 oil tank would fit but
not sure.

Scott
Moose #174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Wes
& Bobbi Jo Erb
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:37 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: MAM MP-14 FWF kits


Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some more
parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does anyone
have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what was
on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that would
be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting up
the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net





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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Just talked with Elaine,

As far as the "convenience factor" I could go mine the ore and have it
processed it into steel before I receive the tank. They order them from a
trucking company and then weld the fittings on. She "expected" a couple of
months before receiving them from the truck company and then who knows how
long to have them welded up.

However I did order the cowl, I like the look better than the YAK
conversions I have seen so far.

As far as comparing prices to Cessna and Piper..you expect certified
suppliers to say bend over, but would hope MAM would make their money on the
kits and not on "FWF Kits" that are just a bunch of common parts thrown
together.

Scott
Moose #174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:17 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits



Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some more
parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does anyone
have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what was
on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that

would

be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting up
the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net





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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Steve, you are right "IF" you can get all the parts required at one time
that is much more convenient. You will definitely have to be the "squeaky
wheel" on the phone to get everything you need in one year.

Scott
Moose #174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Steve Halvorsen
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:34 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: MAM MP-14 FWF kits


I think Bob has hit it right. We just received our quick build two weeks
ago and had ordered the cowl with it. The thing is huge! ! ! A lot of work
has gone into it and the workman ship is good. After seeing one of the Yak
conversions fit to a moose I'm glad that we ordered from MAM. A lot of time
WILL be saved with their cowl and it has been proven out that it works.
Way try and reinvent the wheel when you can buy it and it will fit the
needs! ! !

We also ordered the engine mount, still waiting for that as we added it at
the last minute. No one else makes one for the moose that I was able to
find. They have the jigs for the correct set up. Cost for the mount was
$1,225.00 US with them supplying the ring. When we get the engine and send
them the ring we'll get $500.00 credit. Will put that towards more parts.

I don't know what your time is worth and how fast you want to get into the
air, but ours is worth a lot and we are going to try and get flying in one
year. It helps if you can get all the parts required at one time that are
needed instead of going all over the county piece meal.

Just my 2 cents!

Steve H
Moose 213







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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some more
parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does anyone
have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what was
on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that would
be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting up
the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net





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[Steve Halvorsen]

I think Bob has hit it right. We just received our quick build two weeks
ago and had ordered the cowl with it. The thing is huge! ! ! A lot of work
has gone into it and the workman ship is good. After seeing one of the Yak
conversions fit to a moose I'm glad that we ordered from MAM. A lot of time
WILL be saved with their cowl and it has been proven out that it works.
Way try and reinvent the wheel when you can buy it and it will fit the
needs! ! !

We also ordered the engine mount, still waiting for that as we added it at
the last minute. No one else makes one for the moose that I was able to
find. They have the jigs for the correct set up. Cost for the mount was
$1,225.00 US with them supplying the ring. When we get the engine and send
them the ring we'll get $500.00 credit. Will put that towards more parts.

I don't know what your time is worth and how fast you want to get into the
air, but ours is worth a lot and we are going to try and get flying in one
year. It helps if you can get all the parts required at one time that are
needed instead of going all over the county piece meal.

Just my 2 cents!

Steve H
Moose 213

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:17 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits



Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some more
parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does anyone
have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what was
on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that

would

be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting up
the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net





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[Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb]

Thanks for the reviews guys.... Sounds like the cowl gets high marks and
the mount too, although Bill, you must have got a good deal 'cause the
mounts are $1,225 now and climbing. Timing is everything.... I would
prefer to use an aluminum cowl just for the weight savings but if they had
cooling problems as Bobp suggested, maybe glass is the way to go. I didn't
see anyone mention actually buying the oil or fuel package, and with the
tremendous lead time required for these things, I think I'll put the $5,300
in my pocket and try to buy parts direct. I'll try to pull some model plate
numbers off of Ron Kakeldy's Moose up here for the cooler and tank and see
what's available.

By the way, in the Best in Show, Knucklehead class, I finished closing
up the elevator yesterday only to find when I picked it up to put it away it
sounded like a rattle in a mariachi band. Numerous bits and pieces left
behind during the FB process I guess that are now floating around in closed
bays. Time to read the archives about easy ways to drill out rivets so I
can get back in there and clean them out. Would have saved lots of time if
I had given the thing a good shake test prior to closing up. My hindsight
is getting better every day....

Wes Erb
Moose #208
Chugiak, AK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Gotta chime in on this one.. Having recently received my cowl and mount,
from MAM, I think I'll go to bat in their favor. The $750 or so, for the
mount seems to be a fair price. It's well made, nicely powder coated and
I'll assume that it's gonna fit. Doesn't look to be over priced. Where
else ya gonna buy a mount for less than a grand? The cowl is quite a

piece

of work! That thing is huge. The pieces seem to be well made (better

than

the wingtips, actually) and well thought out. For the $1300 that it cost,
it seems to be reasonable. The instructions that came with the cowl are
really quite nice. How about that!

If the filter housing (oil tank) costs MAM $150, which it probably does,

and

they put $50 worth of fittings into it, along with 2 hrs of labor, then
paint it, $500 isn't out of line. I don't think many job shops survive at
less than 50% margins. Personally, I'm gonna build my own, because I like
that sort of stuff.

If ya thinks these pieces are too high, take a gander at that nice shiny
Garmin 530 that we'd all like to have in our panel! Of course, with all
that IT can do, one could suggest that it's reasonable, too.

One man's opinion.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some

more

parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does

anyone

have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what

was

on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF,

but

didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that

would

be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing

on

the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter,

but

wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting

up

the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net

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[Bill Delcambre]

Gotta chime in on this one.. Having recently received my cowl and mount,
from MAM, I think I'll go to bat in their favor. The $750 or so, for the
mount seems to be a fair price. It's well made, nicely powder coated and
I'll assume that it's gonna fit. Doesn't look to be over priced. Where
else ya gonna buy a mount for less than a grand? The cowl is quite a piece
of work! That thing is huge. The pieces seem to be well made (better than
the wingtips, actually) and well thought out. For the $1300 that it cost,
it seems to be reasonable. The instructions that came with the cowl are
really quite nice. How about that!

If the filter housing (oil tank) costs MAM $150, which it probably does, and
they put $50 worth of fittings into it, along with 2 hrs of labor, then
paint it, $500 isn't out of line. I don't think many job shops survive at
less than 50% margins. Personally, I'm gonna build my own, because I like
that sort of stuff.

If ya thinks these pieces are too high, take a gander at that nice shiny
Garmin 530 that we'd all like to have in our panel! Of course, with all
that IT can do, one could suggest that it's reasonable, too.

One man's opinion.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hello again!

The talk of backorders reminded me to do mine and maybe order some

more

parts.... I asked MAM for a list of what their Oil and Fuel system FWF
packages were for the MP-14 ($3,100 and $2,190 respectively). Does

anyone

have any experience with these kits? Looked like a lot of $$$ for what

was

on the shipping list. I know Jim Kimball has some great pieces FWF, but
didn't look like everything. Is there anything in these MAM kits that

would

be difficult to come by aftermarket (coolers, reservoirs)? Same thing on
the MAM fiberglass cowl ($1,325) - A Yak cowl would be much lighter, but
wouldn't be "tailored" to the Moose fuselage. Any thoughts on setting

up

the round motor would be greatly appreciated... fly safe....

Wes Erb
Moose#208
Chugiak, AK
lv2hike@gci.net

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[Bill Delcambre]

$1225 with YOUR mount ring? Wow, I did get a deal, didn't I... Probably
gonna cobble together an oil system too. If anyone has a handle on where to
get a properly sized cooler, I'd be interested. I've been looking on EBAY,
recently. Seems that there are a whole bunch of "Nascar" type oil coolers
available frequently. Not worried about durability, but don't know about
capacity. The glass cowl is pretty light. I'm not too sure that a YAK unit
would weigh less. Could be....

Quest, at the moment, is the cooler!

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb" <lv2hike@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Thanks for the reviews guys.... Sounds like the cowl gets high marks and
the mount too, although Bill, you must have got a good deal 'cause the
mounts are $1,225 now and climbing. Timing is everything.... I would
prefer to use an aluminum cowl just for the weight savings but if they had
cooling problems as Bobp suggested, maybe glass is the way to go. I

didn't

see anyone mention actually buying the oil or fuel package, and with the
tremendous lead time required for these things, I think I'll put the

$5,300

in my pocket and try to buy parts direct. I'll try to pull some model

plate

numbers off of Ron Kakeldy's Moose up here for the cooler and tank and see
what's available.

By the way, in the Best in Show, Knucklehead class, I finished

closing

up the elevator yesterday only to find when I picked it up to put it away

it

sounded like a rattle in a mariachi band. Numerous bits and pieces left
behind during the FB process I guess that are now floating around in

closed

bays. Time to read the archives about easy ways to drill out rivets so I
can get back in there and clean them out. Would have saved lots of time

if

I had given the thing a good shake test prior to closing up. My hindsight
is getting better every day....

Wes Erb
Moose #208
Chugiak, AK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Gotta chime in on this one.. Having recently received my cowl and

mount,

from MAM, I think I'll go to bat in their favor. The $750 or so, for

the

mount seems to be a fair price. It's well made, nicely powder coated

and

I'll assume that it's gonna fit. Doesn't look to be over priced. Where
else ya gonna buy a mount for less than a grand? The cowl is quite a

piece

of work! That thing is huge. The pieces seem to be well made (better

than

the wingtips, actually) and well thought out. For the $1300 that it

cost,

it seems to be reasonable. The instructions that came with the cowl are
really quite nice. How about that!

If the filter housing (oil tank) costs MAM $150, which it probably does,

and

they put $50 worth of fittings into it, along with 2 hrs of labor, then
paint it, $500 isn't out of line. I don't think many job shops survive

at

less than 50% margins. Personally, I'm gonna build my own, because I

like

that sort of stuff.

If ya thinks these pieces are too high, take a gander at that nice shiny
Garmin 530 that we'd all like to have in our panel! Of course, with all
that IT can do, one could suggest that it's reasonable, too.

One man's opinion.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: MAM MP-14 FWF kits

Hi Wes !

I guess you have to consider the "convenience factor"
of buying a FWF package from Murphy - or "How much is YOUR
time worth to dig for an alternative that MAY not be as good !"
(Of course, it MIGHT be AS GOOD, and possibly cheaper ... )

Murphy's prices look like positive bargains compared to
Cessna and Piper !

Just a thought on the cowling - having flown a couple
of variations.... The current Moose cowl represents years of
testing and changing, and apparently works VERY well. Earlier
models didn't cool well - and I hear that using the Yak cowl,
even with MAJOR airframe mods, can give you a few over-hot
cylinders ...... is it worth the risk and aggravation ??

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 01:37 AM 10/14/03 -0800, you wrote:

some

more

FWF

anyone

what

was

but

that

would

thing

on

but

setting

up

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 11:40 AM 10/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:

$1225 with YOUR mount ring? Wow, I did get a deal, didn't I... Probably
gonna cobble together an oil system too. If anyone has a handle on where to
get a properly sized cooler, I'd be interested. I've been looking on EBAY,
recently. Seems that there are a whole bunch of "Nascar" type oil coolers
available frequently. Not worried about durability, but don't know about
capacity. The glass cowl is pretty light. I'm not too sure that a YAK unit
would weigh less. Could be....

Quest, at the moment, is the cooler!

Bill

You might find some help at this site Bill. The model 12 Pitts uses a race
car oil cooler.

http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com


Drew Dalgleish




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