wing tips and leading edges

rebel · Post by **rebel** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

I am interested in learning from anyone that is using Dave Fife's wing tips
and Angus ? leading edge parts. What type of actual improvement are you
getting?

I am slowly chugging along on my Rebel. If it wasn't for the US Army shipping
us to a different location every couple of years I'd probably be done by now.
Just found out we may be getting transfered to Hawaii. I was hoping for
Alaska. We will need to be there by the end of Jan. I am thinking of bringing
the wing parts there and building them while there. I tried to build my
amphibs while we were in Germany but that was a mistake. Had a big crate to
store with no place to build. I'll probably bring the rest of the kit up to my
place in Nothern Minnesota.

I'm hoping I can build the wings in the house while there. I checked the EAA
web site for chapters on Ouha but came up negative.

Anyway back to my question. Is the performance gain worth the work and cost?
Also, is there much difference between the 150 and the 160HP as far as
performance is concerned? I have an 0-320D2J engine case at my farm that needs
rebuilding and think I would like to be able to use auto gas because the
nearest airport is 30 miles from my home. I will be basing the plane at my
farm.

Thanks,
Keith R661

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Not sure about filling up at marinas. Most of the ones
I've seen are not plane-friendly with tall wing
smashing pylons. The one time last year when I tried to
fuel up at one, they refused to sell it to me because
of liability concerns. Luckily with my amphibs, it's
not hard to find an airport close by with fuel.

So, at home, I use mogas whenever I can, but when on
trips I use avgas.

I had mine overhauled with the 150 hp pistons, too, but
if I was doing it again, I might just go for the 160
ones. Every last bit of hp helps when you are on
floats.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:21 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wing tips and leading edges

'tend to agree here totally Bruce and was my
mind set when I had my 160hp x
O-320-B2B core overhauled as a derated 150Hp
x O-320-C2A.

Since then though just about every marina in
North America has put in a
Premium pump to satisfy the Jet Ski / Jet
Boat crowd that are running Rotax
engines (that need "high test") so maybe not
as much of a reason to not get
the extra 10HP out of the O-320
anymore......... at no extra upfront cost.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: wing tips and leading edges

Keith,

I think the 150 HP is preferred and have
better resale value, If you
intend
to be one floats. Marina gas and or auto
gas is the reason for the
preferred
150 HP

I fly almost entirely on auto gas. 98
hours without a hitch.
Bruce 357R

*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:

https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*

*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at
https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Keith,

I think the 150 HP is preferred and have better resale value, If you intend
to be one floats. Marina gas and or auto gas is the reason for the preferred
150 HP

I fly almost entirely on auto gas. 98 hours without a hitch.

Bruce 357R

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

'tend to agree here totally Bruce and was my mind set when I had my 160hp x
O-320-B2B core overhauled as a derated 150Hp x O-320-C2A.

Since then though just about every marina in North America has put in a
Premium pump to satisfy the Jet Ski / Jet Boat crowd that are running Rotax
engines (that need "high test") so maybe not as much of a reason to not get
the extra 10HP out of the O-320 anymore......... at no extra upfront cost.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: wing tips and leading edges

Keith,

I think the 150 HP is preferred and have better resale value, If you

intend

to be one floats. Marina gas and or auto gas is the reason for the

preferred

150 HP

I fly almost entirely on auto gas. 98 hours without a hitch.

Bruce 357R

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Keith, if you are going to only have a tank at the farm of regular car gas =
150 HP. If you want to go 160HP then you'll need to get it filled with some
good premium or 100LL.

As for Hawaii, I know for a fact that an entire Rebel with engine installed
can be coaxed into a 20 foot marine container and successfully cross the
pacific to the Big Island and then transfer to Maui. Depending on your
posting time, maybe take the whole thing with you?

Want a contact in Hawaii, try "George Brown" that I sold the Rebel to on
Maui. Haven't talked with him in awhile, but pretty sure his email is still
valid at malia@maui.net

His son (Keoki) is also a flyer and CFI. I'm sure between the two of them
they can hook you up with someone on the Big Island.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:51 PM
Subject: wing tips and leading edges

I am interested in learning from anyone that is using Dave Fife's wing

tips

and Angus ? leading edge parts. What type of actual improvement are you
getting?

I am slowly chugging along on my Rebel. If it wasn't for the US Army

shipping

us to a different location every couple of years I'd probably be done by

now.

Just found out we may be getting transfered to Hawaii. I was hoping for
Alaska. We will need to be there by the end of Jan. I am thinking of

bringing

the wing parts there and building them while there. I tried to build my
amphibs while we were in Germany but that was a mistake. Had a big crate

to

store with no place to build. I'll probably bring the rest of the kit up

to my

place in Nothern Minnesota.

I'm hoping I can build the wings in the house while there. I checked the

EAA

web site for chapters on Ouha but came up negative.

Anyway back to my question. Is the performance gain worth the work and

cost?

Also, is there much difference between the 150 and the 160HP as far as
performance is concerned? I have an 0-320D2J engine case at my farm that

needs

rebuilding and think I would like to be able to use auto gas because the
nearest airport is 30 miles from my home. I will be basing the plane at my
farm.

Thanks,
Keith R661

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Wayne,

I was under the impression you could not run premium auto (92-94 octane) in
the higher compression 0320 160 Hp Lycoming? It had to be 100 LL or better. not
like my Rotax 912S Kitfox which needs Premium auto (92 octane minimum) or
100LL.

Bruce 367R

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

I have no personal experience running 160HP's on Premium, but I know it's
done.

The only time I ever ran MOGAS in an airplane was during my pilot training
in C172's. The Midland flight school, where I got my license, did the MOGAS
testing for the DOT.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: wing tips and leading edges

Wayne,

I was under the impression you could not run premium auto (92-94 octane)

in

the higher compression 0320 160 Hp Lycoming? It had to be 100 LL or

better. not

like my Rotax 912S Kitfox which needs Premium auto (92 octane minimum) or
100LL.

Bruce 367R

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Hi Keith !

Sounds like you got lots of answers to everything BUT
the first question ! :-)

I have both add-ons, and deliberately did them a year apart,
so I could assess their relative values. After flying them across
Canada, I can say they are both worthwhile additions.

Dave Fife's wing tips will definitely reduce your takeoff
distance by over 20 %, and give about 100 fpm more climb, and maybe
1 or 2 mph more cruise (IF you have TWO notches of negative flap).
They will also save you about 50 or 60 hours of work, compared to
the factory tip "kits" ! Dave also supplies tail tips and fairings
for the aileron pushrods - these also save HOURS of work and fiddling !

Angus McKenzie makes no performance claims at all for his
STOL kits - but they DO greatly enhance safety, by virtually eliminating
the stall ! They really improve low speed controlability, and let you
fly all day at any speed below 60 mph that you pick, with very little
effort - steep turns feel completely safe, and climb angles can just
get ridiculous ... I've climbed at 800+ fpm at 46 mph !!! Of course,
it goes up to 1,600 fpm at 65 mph ... ;-)

<I> feel the McKenzie STOL kit gave me another 100 fpm in climb,
and the really experienced amphib pilots claim that they can fly approaches
at 40 mph on the GPS, into 900 ft. long 'lakes' with them !!! There
is absolutely NO reduction in cruise speed that I could detect, but
<my> stall speed went down about 10 mph !

Angus will tell you which 2 rivets/rib to countersink when
building, and you can add the STOL kit anytime after building.

I would heartily recommend both options if you really want
all the performance you can get, AND save time building, AND end up
with far better quality parts than it's possible to build with
the stock parts.

I'm with you - go with the 150 hp. engine ! It will be
more reliable, and smoother....

Have fun !! :-)

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.-------------------------------
At 01:51 PM 10/6/03 -0800, you wrote:

I am interested in learning from anyone that is using Dave Fife's wing tips
and Angus ? leading edge parts. What type of actual improvement are you
getting?

I am slowly chugging along on my Rebel. If it wasn't for the US Army shipping
us to a different location every couple of years I'd probably be done by now.
Just found out we may be getting transfered to Hawaii. I was hoping for
Alaska. We will need to be there by the end of Jan. I am thinking of bringing
the wing parts there and building them while there. I tried to build my
amphibs while we were in Germany but that was a mistake. Had a big crate to
store with no place to build. I'll probably bring the rest of the kit up to my
place in Nothern Minnesota.

I'm hoping I can build the wings in the house while there. I checked the EAA
web site for chapters on Ouha but came up negative.

Anyway back to my question. Is the performance gain worth the work and cost?
Also, is there much difference between the 150 and the 160HP as far as
performance is concerned? I have an 0-320D2J engine case at my farm that needs
rebuilding and think I would like to be able to use auto gas because the
nearest airport is 30 miles from my home. I will be basing the plane at my
farm.

Thanks,
Keith R661

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

bransom · Post by **bransom** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

This thread took off on Lyc 150hp vs 160hp --ok, good. I was also kind of
hoping to see some reports on Angus' STOL kit. Bob Patterson -- as I recall,
you were installing Angus' mods to your Rebel. Did you complete that? Also
interested if there are any pros or cons to installing the Angus kit in the
initial build instead of modificaton later.
-Ben Ransom

-> I am interested in learning from anyone that is using Dave Fife's wing
tips
-> and Angus ? leading edge parts. What type of actual improvement are you
-> getting?
<clip>
-> Thanks,
-> Keith R661

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

bransom · Post by **bransom** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Whoops, yes, don't know how I missed the earlier post!
Good info on good add ons.
Thanks,
-Ben
On 10/13/2003 9:57 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> Hi Ben !
->
-> I guess you missed my reply from Oct. 7th ....
-> here it is again ! I've added a couple of details ..
->
-> ....bobp
->

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Ben,

Bobp is currently flying the Angus STOL kit and he likes it very much as I'm
sure he will tell you.

As for installing it after the fact, I don't believe that is a problem. The
kit simply rivets to the leading edge. There is, I believe, some rivets you
could counter sink on the leading edge ahead of time, if you are considering the
STOL kit, that would facilitate the installation later.

There is considerable threads in the archives on this subject.

Bruce 357R

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Hi Ben !

I guess you missed my reply from Oct. 7th ....
here it is again ! I've added a couple of details ..

....bobp

========================================================================
Hi Keith !

Sounds like you got lots of answers to everything BUT
the first question ! :-)

I have both add-ons, and deliberately did them a year apart,
so I could assess their relative values. After flying them across
Canada, I can say they are both worthwhile additions.

Dave Fife's wing tips will definitely reduce your takeoff
distance by over 20 %, and give about 100 fpm more climb, and maybe
1 or 2 mph more cruise (IF you have TWO notches of negative flap).
They will also save you about 50 or 60 hours of work, compared to
the factory tip "kits" ! Dave also supplies tail tips and fairings
for the aileron pushrods - these also save HOURS of work and fiddling !

Angus McKenzie makes no performance claims at all for his
STOL kits - but they DO greatly enhance safety, by virtually eliminating
the stall ! They really improve low speed controlability, and let you
fly all day at any speed below 60 mph that you pick, with very little
effort - steep turns feel completely safe, and climb angles can just
get ridiculous ... I've climbed at 800+ fpm at 46 mph !!! Of course,
it goes up to 1,600 fpm at 65 mph ... ;-)

<I> feel the McKenzie STOL kit gave me another 100 fpm in climb,
and the really experienced amphib pilots claim that they can fly approaches
at 40 mph on the GPS, into 900 ft. long 'lakes' with them !!! There
is absolutely NO reduction in cruise speed that I could detect, but
<my> stall speed went down about 10 mph !

Angus will tell you which 4 rivets/rib to countersink when
building, and you can add the STOL kit anytime after building. It
would be best to install his STOL kit before painting, but no
penalty it you wait. By all means, get the Fife wing tips WITH
the landing lights built in - this avoids a problem later. If
you put the landing lights in the leading edge, then add the McKenzie
STOL package, you end up with "stealth" landing lights ! ;-)
[ Angus' cuffs COVER the leading edge !! :-) ]

I would heartily recommend both options if you really want
all the performance you can get, AND save time building, AND end up
with far better quality tips than it's possible to build with
the stock parts. The McKenzie STOL kit will go right onto an
Elite, and I understand Dave Fife is working on a preliminary set
of his wing tips to fit both the Elite and the Super Rebel/Moose !

I'm with you - go with the 150 hp. engine ! It will be
more reliable, and smoother....

Have fun !! :-)

......bobp

=====================================================================

-----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 11:23 AM 10/13/03 -0800, you wrote:

This thread took off on Lyc 150hp vs 160hp --ok, good. I was also kind of
hoping to see some reports on Angus' STOL kit. Bob Patterson -- as I recall,
you were installing Angus' mods to your Rebel. Did you complete that? Also
interested if there are any pros or cons to installing the Angus kit in the
initial build instead of modificaton later.
-Ben Ransom

-> I am interested in learning from anyone that is using Dave Fife's wing
tips
-> and Angus ? leading edge parts. What type of actual improvement are you
-> getting?
<clip>
-> Thanks,
-> Keith R661

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at https://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------