PSRU Adapter

[Mike Kimball]

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in the
quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a little
cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it. Indeed,
there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a stress
riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part. The
website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock. I
assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids were
present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR #044




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bill Delcambre]

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum. Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by pouring
the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result. Not
only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones. Aircraft
cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a lot
more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will be
described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in the
quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a little
cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it. Indeed,
there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock. I
assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR #044

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Rickhm at home]

Mike,

I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not having a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to avoid
both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum. Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by pouring
the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result. Not
only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones. Aircraft
cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a lot
more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will be
described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in the
quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a little
cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it.

Indeed,

there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock. I
assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR #044

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this message.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[larry173]

Where did you get the PSRU and what are you putting it on.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:54 PM
Subject: PSRU Adapter

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in the
quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a little
cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it. Indeed,
there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock. I
assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR #044

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[rickhm]

Mike,

I checked this AM with one of our Mechanical Engineers. He is also a car racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20 hours because they are run so hard.

I was close. There is actually very strong grain in billets. The process of rolling and forging creates a very dense strong structure. At times the grain in the billet will be use to the advantage of the part design for strength. Castings can be just as strong, but require more metal. When they make a crankcase they first cast it and then forge it by heating and applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they will get it red hot and then somehow pound on it to "forge" the metal. I shared your observations about your PSRU casting. He agreed that the pockets and bubbles are cause for concern. The key question is does the casting have the same or more metal as its predecessor part that was cut from a billet.

Hope this helps.

Rick
-------Original Message-------
From: Rickhm at home <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
Sent: 08/21/03 06:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not having
a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to avoid

both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts
are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum.
Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and
clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by pouring
the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result. Not
only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones. Aircraft
cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a lot
more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will be
described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings
and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in

the

quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a

little

cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it.

Indeed,

there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock.

I

assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR

#044
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this
message.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Mike Kimball]

I thought one comment from Rick was interesting. Mike Davis and I both
thought that my block was cast due to the rough surface where it was pulled
out of a mold. Yet I was always under the impression that Rodec blocks were
forged. If what Rick says is true, apparently it is cast first, then
"forged" (pressure and heat) which would explain why my block and my heads
don't have pinholes or voids anywhere, yet they have rough casting mold
release areas that make it look like it was a casting.

Mike Kimball
SR #044

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rickhm@mindspring.com
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:09 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter


Mike,

I checked this AM with one of our Mechanical Engineers. He is also a car
racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20 hours because they are run so
hard.

I was close. There is actually very strong grain in billets. The process
of rolling and forging creates a very dense strong structure. At times the
grain in the billet will be use to the advantage of the part design for
strength. Castings can be just as strong, but require more metal. When
they make a crankcase they first cast it and then forge it by heating and
applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they will get
it red hot and then somehow pound on it to "forge" the metal. I shared your
observations about your PSRU casting. He agreed that the pockets and
bubbles are cause for concern. The key question is does the casting have
the same or more metal as its predecessor part that was cut from a billet.

Hope this helps.

Rick
-------Original Message-------
From: Rickhm at home <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
Sent: 08/21/03 06:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not having
a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to avoid

both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts
are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum.
Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and
clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by pouring
the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result. Not
only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones. Aircraft
cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a lot
more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will be
described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings
and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in

the

quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a

little

cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it.

Indeed,

there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock.

I

assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR

#044
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this
message.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[David Stroud]

Who manufactured this adapter and what engine / PSRU is it for? Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I checked this AM with one of our Mechanical Engineers. He is also a car racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20

hours because they are run so hard.

I was close. There is actually very strong grain in billets. The process of rolling and forging creates a very dense

strong structure. At times the grain in the billet will be use to the advantage of the part design for strength. Castings
can be just as strong, but require more metal. When they make a crankcase they first cast it and then forge it by heating
and applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they will get it red hot and then somehow pound on it to
"forge" the metal. I shared your observations about your PSRU casting. He agreed that the pockets and bubbles are cause for
concern. The key question is does the casting have the same or more metal as its predecessor part that was cut from a
billet.

Hope this helps.

Rick
-------Original Message-------
From: Rickhm at home <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
Sent: 08/21/03 06:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not having
a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to avoid

both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts
are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum.
Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and
clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by pouring
the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result. Not
only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones. Aircraft
cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a lot
more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will be
described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings
and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in

the

quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a

little

cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it.

Indeed,

there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another sharp
angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock.

I

assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock is
created.
Mike Kimball
SR

#044
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this
message.


*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*





*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Hey, who let this guy on the list??

JUST KIDDING DAVE!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Who manufactured this adapter and what engine / PSRU is it for? Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I checked this AM with one of our Mechanical Engineers. He is also a

car racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20

hours because they are run so hard.

I was close. There is actually very strong grain in billets. The

process of rolling and forging creates a very dense

strong structure. At times the grain in the billet will be use to the

advantage of the part design for strength. Castings

can be just as strong, but require more metal. When they make a crankcase

they first cast it and then forge it by heating

and applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they will

get it red hot and then somehow pound on it to

"forge" the metal. I shared your observations about your PSRU casting.

He agreed that the pockets and bubbles are cause for

concern. The key question is does the casting have the same or more metal

as its predecessor part that was cut from a

billet.

Hope this helps.

Rick
-------Original Message-------
From: Rickhm at home <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
Sent: 08/21/03 06:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not

having

a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to

avoid

both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts
are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum.
Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and
clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by

pouring

the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result.

Not

only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones.

Aircraft

cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a

lot

more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will

be

described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings
and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

I received my PSRU to engine adapter yesterday. I am disappointed in

the

quality of the casting. On one side there is a large void, like a

little

cave in the casting. And there are pinholes everywhere which may be
permeated throughout the casting internally where I can't see it.

Indeed,

there could be large voids similar to the one I can see. Another

sharp

angled void is present on one of the edges that would certainly be a

stress

riser. I was also surprised it was cast. I expected a machined part.

The

website says that the gear case is machined from 6061-T6 billet stock.

I

assumed the adapter would be too. Is it possible it was and the voids

were

present in the billet? I don't know anything about how billet stock

is

created.
Mike Kimball
SR

#044

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this
message.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[David Stroud]

Giday, Wayne. I joined the list with the view to start a Moose for use with the 285 hp Housai engine.
I was going to call it a Moose Lite..
I emailed Murphy for info but they could not reply as they were at Arlington, then they got too busy with Oshkosh.
Still nothing so I started the Fairchild.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Hey, who let this guy on the list??

JUST KIDDING DAVE!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Who manufactured this adapter and what engine / PSRU is it for? Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Mike,

I checked this AM with one of our Mechanical Engineers. He is also a

car racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20

hours because they are run so hard.

I was close. There is actually very strong grain in billets. The

process of rolling and forging creates a very dense

strong structure. At times the grain in the billet will be use to the

advantage of the part design for strength. Castings

can be just as strong, but require more metal. When they make a crankcase

they first cast it and then forge it by heating

and applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they will

get it red hot and then somehow pound on it to

"forge" the metal. I shared your observations about your PSRU casting.

He agreed that the pockets and bubbles are cause for

concern. The key question is does the casting have the same or more metal

as its predecessor part that was cut from a

billet.

Hope this helps.

Rick
-------Original Message-------
From: Rickhm at home <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
Sent: 08/21/03 06:31 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: PSRU Adapter
I design medical equipment for a living. As such we rarely run into the
forces that an engine go through, but if we need a strong part we cut it
out of a billet. With casted parts there is a "grain" that is formed by
the flow of the aluminum. BIllet stock typically is viewed as not

having

a
grain. I'm sure it does, but there isn't a sense of grain due to the
issues that Bill mentioned, i.e. rolling etc. I would make a phone call
and ask them how many of the cast parts are operational in the field and
what their history is! As I have looked for my PSRU I have tried to

avoid

both welding and castings. Bill does make a good point that many parts
are
made from castings and I have seen good strong castings made. But given
the forces involved I think you need to ask more quesitons, to be sure!
Hope it works out, surprises are never fun!

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Delcambre [SMTP:bdelcambre@cox-internet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 3:32 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: PSRU Adapter

Well Mike,

Not being an engineer or metalurgist, I'll give you my opinion, as
developed from too many years of dealing with welding of aluminum.
Billets
are the result of rolled or forged ingots. The material is dense and
clear
as a result of the mechanical working that makes it a billet. Voids or
pinholes would be extraordinarily rare. Castings are produced by

pouring

the molten metal into molds and then final machined from the result.

Not

only are castings inherently porous, as a result of trapped gases during
the
cooling process (pinholes) but the alloys used for casting are not quite
the
same as those from which the billets are produced. In welding, you'd be
amazed how porous aluminum castings are, even really good ones.

Aircraft

cylinder heads, for example, are castings. They're good ones, but have
more
porosity than you'd imagine. Doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's
machined from billet aluminum, you won't see any voids or pinholes. If
it's
a casting, what you've described is not surprising, to me. There's a

lot

more differences between castings and billet items, as I'm certain will

be

described by those more knowledgable than me, but bottom line is your
confidence in the manufacturer. As stated, cylinder heads are castings
and
work just fine. Properly designed, nothing at all wrong with a good
casting.

Bill Delcambre

the little Indeed,

sharp

stress The I were

is

#044

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*** File "WINMAIL.DAT" has been uudecoded and attached to this
message.

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail
mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

I hear your disappointment Dave!

We are all starting to wonder what's happening on the "West Coast" as even
the "old" dedicated bunch aren't getting responses (or parts) either!

:o(
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Giday, Wayne. I joined the list with the view to start a Moose for use

with the 285 hp Housai engine.

I was going to call it a Moose Lite..
I emailed Murphy for info but they could not reply as they were at

Arlington, then they got too busy with Oshkosh.

Still nothing so I started the Fairchild.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Hey, who let this guy on the list??

JUST KIDDING DAVE!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

Who manufactured this adapter and what engine / PSRU is it for?

Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild FC-2 early construction


----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: RE: PSRU Adapter

a

car racer and rebuilds his engine about every 20

hours because they are run so hard.

process of rolling and forging creates a very dense

strong structure. At times the grain in the billet will be use to the

advantage of the part design for strength. Castings

can be just as strong, but require more metal. When they make a

crankcase

they first cast it and then forge it by heating

and applying extensive pressure. In the case of an engine block they

will

get it red hot and then somehow pound on it to

"forge" the metal. I shared your observations about your PSRU

casting.

He agreed that the pockets and bubbles are cause for

concern. The key question is does the casting have the same or more

metal

as its predecessor part that was cut from a

billet.

the

cut it

formed by

having

the

call

and

avoid

parts

given

sure!

as

and

or

pouring

Not

during

quite

you'd be

Aircraft

have

If

a

lot

will

be

your

castings

in

be

sharp

a

part.

stock.

voids

stock

is

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*




*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
To unsubscribe from this list go to:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------