float gear pressure

[Walter Klatt]

I don't know, Drew, something doesn't sound right. Mine
holds pressure for long periods of time. Is your
selector valve and pressure gauge plumbed to the right
lines? Are you sure all the air is out of the lines and
system. Sorry, but that's all I can think of.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 8:48 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: float gear pressure


I've finally got my floats under my plane
and partly rigged. After removing
all my wheel cylinders but one I seem to
have all the leaks stopped up but
I still can't get the system to hold
pressure for more than a few minutes
in either the up or down mode. How much
pressure do I need in the system to
be able to land safely?
Drew Dalgleish




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

100psi works..150psi max at anytime other than your testing to blow the
lines off at around 250 to 300 psi! Why MAM is now supplying 600 psi gauges
I'll never know!

IF you aren't dripping fluid anywhere, then your check valves at the pump
are probably leaking down. Which check valves do you have. The big brass
things they are using now with the plastic guts inside (that I hear blow
apart with parts going down the lines) or the original style with just a
spring and ball inside a hose barb. I have found these are the simplest and
work fine if the seat is nicely polished. Howard's holds pressure for months
and FOKM holds for a good week from 150psi bleeding to no less than 50psi.

Mind you FOKM didn't hold pressure originally when I got her and there was
always a small amount of fluid around the pump base. When I went to pull out
the pump, because I thought the base seal was leaking, when I removed the
mounting bolt next to the outlet hose barb it was like a gyser!! The base
was cracked between the threaded port and the mounting hole with the bolt
fit tight enough that it would let the pressure out but not much fluid.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:47 PM
Subject: float gear pressure

I've finally got my floats under my plane and partly rigged. After

removing

all my wheel cylinders but one I seem to have all the leaks stopped up but
I still can't get the system to hold pressure for more than a few minutes
in either the up or down mode. How much pressure do I need in the system

to

be able to land safely?
Drew Dalgleish

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[Drew Dalgleish]

I've finally got my floats under my plane and partly rigged. After removing
all my wheel cylinders but one I seem to have all the leaks stopped up but
I still can't get the system to hold pressure for more than a few minutes
in either the up or down mode. How much pressure do I need in the system to
be able to land safely?
Drew Dalgleish




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

To add to that Drew....you don't need any pressure once your gear is over
center on the mains and locked provided that you don't turn the airplane
around. As long as the nose wheels are trailing they will keep the top
roller tight to the front of the track, but turn the nose wheels anywhere
close to sideways or around backwards and they will collapse at anything
under about 60psi.

As for gear up. You need enough pressure to keep the main wheels up in the
retracted postion. The nose wheels won't move anywhere without pressure to
do so, but the mains can drop down some if the pressure is lost.

It's the nose wheels that will flip you in the water, if they are down! The
mains will sure shorten the landing slide, but won't put you over on your
back (don't ask how we know that for sure!!)!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

100psi works..150psi max at anytime other than your testing to blow the
lines off at around 250 to 300 psi! Why MAM is now supplying 600 psi

gauges

I'll never know!

IF you aren't dripping fluid anywhere, then your check valves at the pump
are probably leaking down. Which check valves do you have. The big brass
things they are using now with the plastic guts inside (that I hear blow
apart with parts going down the lines) or the original style with just a
spring and ball inside a hose barb. I have found these are the simplest

and

work fine if the seat is nicely polished. Howard's holds pressure for

months

and FOKM holds for a good week from 150psi bleeding to no less than 50psi.

Mind you FOKM didn't hold pressure originally when I got her and there was
always a small amount of fluid around the pump base. When I went to pull

out

the pump, because I thought the base seal was leaking, when I removed the
mounting bolt next to the outlet hose barb it was like a gyser!! The base
was cracked between the threaded port and the mounting hole with the bolt
fit tight enough that it would let the pressure out but not much fluid.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 11:47 PM
Subject: float gear pressure

I've finally got my floats under my plane and partly rigged. After

removing

all my wheel cylinders but one I seem to have all the leaks stopped up

but

I still can't get the system to hold pressure for more than a few

minutes

in either the up or down mode. How much pressure do I need in the system

to

be able to land safely?
Drew Dalgleish

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[Walter Klatt]

Wayne, was this with the 1500's? If so, then 1800's
should be OK, and maybe I don't need the mirrors on the
sides of my floats to check the back wheels. I'm having
trouble keeping them stuck on anyway.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:48 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

They had the nose wheels up for

sure and the mains had dropped down
(confirmed by a fly by the float plane
ramp) so they took the river vs hard
surface. No big deal on the landing
(like a glassy water grab!),

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[Jeffrey Steenson]

Dear Wayne,
Let us know when you are in a particularly talkative mood so we can ask the
question.
Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

It's the nose wheels that will flip you in the water, if they are down!

The

mains will sure shorten the landing slide, but won't put you over on your
back (don't ask how we know that for sure!!)!

Wayne

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[Jeffrey Steenson]

Hey, my job is to ask the tough questions, like "where you you last night,
Paddy?" It is nice to know that visually confirming both nosewheels are up
and locked is the key.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

Always the Minister in the crowd that's the "smart ass" aye!!??!?! )

Wasn't me, but it was FOKM!! The guy I sold the airplane to two years ago
remember me telling him that.......... after his instructor managed to

kick

apart the hydraulic lines under the carpet!! They had the nose wheels up

for

sure and the mains had dropped down (confirmed by a fly by the float plane
ramp) so they took the river vs hard surface. No big deal on the landing
(like a glassy water grab!), rejoined the hydraulic line/refilled and away
they went. Might not want to try it with a set of EDO's that the wheels

come

out about 10" or Keith's Montana's. But the stock MAM floats only have

about

2 1/2 to 3" clearance under them with the wheels all the way out!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

Dear Wayne,
Let us know when you are in a particularly talkative mood so we can ask

the

question.
Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

It's the nose wheels that will flip you in the water, if they are

down!

The

mains will sure shorten the landing slide, but won't put you over on

your

back (don't ask how we know that for sure!!)!

Wayne

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[Walter Klatt]

No, I'm sure there is only one right way to plumb it,
but don't know what happens if a couple of hoses are
switched around.

If you have air in the lines or cylinders, that might
do it. If you are using the clear plastic hose, it is
pretty easy to get it all out. I just lowered and
raised the nose as required, to move the air through
the lines. It took a bit of patience, but guaranteed
that all air was removed without any messy bleeding at
the fittings.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:39 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: float gear pressure


At 08:54 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, you wrote:

I don't know, Drew, something doesn't sound

right. Mine

holds pressure for long periods of time. Is your
selector valve and pressure gauge plumbed

to the right

lines? Are you sure all the air is out of

the lines and

system. Sorry, but that's all I can think of.

Walter

I'm assuming that I have everything plumbed
properly because it works the
way it's supposed to. Is there more than one
way to plumb it and still have
them work? Theres still some air in the
system but I think that would slow
my pressure drop as the air will expand and
keep pressure on as the fluid
disappears
Drew Dalgleish




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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 11:45 PM 6/30/2003 -0400, you wrote:

100psi works..150psi max at anytime other than your testing to blow the
lines off at around 250 to 300 psi! Why MAM is now supplying 600 psi gauges
I'll never know!

IF you aren't dripping fluid anywhere, then your check valves at the pump
are probably leaking down. Which check valves do you have. The big brass
things they are using now with the plastic guts inside (that I hear blow
apart with parts going down the lines) or the original style with just a
spring and ball inside a hose barb. I have found these are the simplest and
work fine if the seat is nicely polished. Howard's holds pressure for months
and FOKM holds for a good week from 150psi bleeding to no less than 50psi.

Mind you FOKM didn't hold pressure originally when I got her and there was
always a small amount of fluid around the pump base. When I went to pull out
the pump, because I thought the base seal was leaking, when I removed the
mounting bolt next to the outlet hose barb it was like a gyser!! The base
was cracked between the threaded port and the mounting hole with the bolt
fit tight enough that it would let the pressure out but not much fluid.

Wayne

Thanks for the pressures Wayne. If the check valves are leaking wouldn't it
have to be both of them? Yes my check valves are the big brass ones. I
never checked the guts of them though. I'm wondering if one of my cylinders
is leaking internally across the piston O-ring.
Drew Dalgleish




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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 08:54 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, you wrote:

I don't know, Drew, something doesn't sound right. Mine
holds pressure for long periods of time. Is your
selector valve and pressure gauge plumbed to the right
lines? Are you sure all the air is out of the lines and
system. Sorry, but that's all I can think of.

Walter

I'm assuming that I have everything plumbed properly because it works the
way it's supposed to. Is there more than one way to plumb it and still have
them work? Theres still some air in the system but I think that would slow
my pressure drop as the air will expand and keep pressure on as the fluid
disappears
Drew Dalgleish




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Drew, before you tear every cylinder line apart put the gear down and add
pressure. Then take the return line off at the reservior and have someone
give the pump a pull/push. Nothing should come out since the cylinders are
all bottomed.

If you get fluid then you either have a leak through on your selector valve
to tank or a cylinder leaking through and it's going to get messy finding it
if you have this type of leakage.

Good luck,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: float gear pressure

At 08:54 PM 6/30/2003 -0700, you wrote:

I don't know, Drew, something doesn't sound right. Mine
holds pressure for long periods of time. Is your
selector valve and pressure gauge plumbed to the right
lines? Are you sure all the air is out of the lines and
system. Sorry, but that's all I can think of.

Walter

I'm assuming that I have everything plumbed properly because it works the
way it's supposed to. Is there more than one way to plumb it and still

have

them work? Theres still some air in the system but I think that would slow
my pressure drop as the air will expand and keep pressure on as the fluid
disappears
Drew Dalgleish

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Always the Minister in the crowd that's the "smart ass" aye!!??!?! )

Wasn't me, but it was FOKM!! The guy I sold the airplane to two years ago
remember me telling him that.......... after his instructor managed to kick
apart the hydraulic lines under the carpet!! They had the nose wheels up for
sure and the mains had dropped down (confirmed by a fly by the float plane
ramp) so they took the river vs hard surface. No big deal on the landing
(like a glassy water grab!), rejoined the hydraulic line/refilled and away
they went. Might not want to try it with a set of EDO's that the wheels come
out about 10" or Keith's Montana's. But the stock MAM floats only have about
2 1/2 to 3" clearance under them with the wheels all the way out!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Steenson" <jsteenson1@comcast.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

Dear Wayne,
Let us know when you are in a particularly talkative mood so we can ask

the

question.
Jeffrey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

It's the nose wheels that will flip you in the water, if they are down!

The

mains will sure shorten the landing slide, but won't put you over on

your

back (don't ask how we know that for sure!!)!

Wayne

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[Legeorgen]

Wayne,

while we are on the subject of floats, and since we have the same batch, I
was exploring my pre built 1800 amphibs today and found the forward "down"
hydraulic hose was kinked between the cylinder and the T fitting. :(

The whole cylinder looks like it will have to be removed to replace the line
because there is virtually no room to work on it while it's installed. You
had better give your lines a good check if you haven't already.

Bruce 357R



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[Drew Dalgleish]

I checked my pump tonight by putting the selector in the centre and pumping
it held just fine. The pressure drop is slow enough when it gets down to
75psi. that I'm just going to live with it for now. I figured out an easy
way to instal the main wheels. Yeserday I glued the washers that space the
brake holder on with sikaflex. today I was able to bolt on both mains in
less than 1/2hr.
Drew Dalgleish




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thanks Bruce! So pissed off with that whole affair that I haven't even
looked at them, since taking the crates off. Will have a good look in the
winter, when possibly I finally receive my back orders!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: float gear pressure

Wayne,

while we are on the subject of floats, and since we have the same batch, I
was exploring my pre built 1800 amphibs today and found the forward "down"
hydraulic hose was kinked between the cylinder and the T fitting.

The whole cylinder looks like it will have to be removed to replace the

line

because there is virtually no room to work on it while it's installed. You
had better give your lines a good check if you haven't already.

Bruce 357R

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