0-235 - flaps

[rebel]

Hi Bobp,

There must be an awful lot of slace in mine because I am certain they go to
about 30degrees. This makes sense about the slackness. I have got the
6degree reflex but can see that if I do uprate the enginge I could add
6degree more. Even the 6degrees makes a huge difference in the cruise
performance. I can see now what you meant when you said full flaps, if I
used that on my (slack) flaps it would be the barn door scenario. Mind you
what hp have you got because I would have thought the more power available
during the run then more drag you could overcome and take advantage of the
increased lift of the extra flaps, must be a real balanced equation??

I live in Cornwall, England (very small fields, originally from Ontartio)

Thanks,

Bob

On 5/1/2003 11:21 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app4.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 192430234; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:29 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust189.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.189])
-> by app4.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19BNgO-0005YK-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
-> Message-Id: <E19BNgO-0005YK-00@app4.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
->
->
-> Hi Bob !
->
-> Your flaps may hang down farther than that if there's a
-> bit of slack in the cable, but MAM says they should stop at
-> 6 degrees, 12 degrees, and 18 degrees (although you can go a
-> couple or 3 more ...). You should also have at least one
-> hole for 6 degrees negative - if you have over about 115 hp,
-> you can pull 2 holes - about 12 degrees negative. Each 6 degrees
-> negative should give approx. 3 mph faster cruise, AND give a
-> better ride in rough air.
->
-> Often the flaps appear lower on the ground, but the
-> air loads will soon lift them considerably. One way to set
-> the correct angles on the ground is to get a couple of helpers
-> to push up on the flapperons, simulating air loads....
->
-> There's no big rush to dump the extra notch on takeoff -
-> take your time, and ease it off when everything's stable ...
->
-> What part of the country are you in ??
->
-> ......bobp
->
-> ----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
-> At 11:39 AM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bobp,
-> >
-> >I will give that a try, sounds like I will need an extra hand. One thing
that
-> >has puzzled me about the flap settings is that the pilot notes say that a
max
-> >of 18degree flap may be used but, the flaps go well beyond this
positon???? I
-> >am sure there is a simple explanation but...
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->




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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Bob !

Your flaps may hang down farther than that if there's a
bit of slack in the cable, but MAM says they should stop at
6 degrees, 12 degrees, and 18 degrees (although you can go a
couple or 3 more ...). You should also have at least one
hole for 6 degrees negative - if you have over about 115 hp,
you can pull 2 holes - about 12 degrees negative. Each 6 degrees
negative should give approx. 3 mph faster cruise, AND give a
better ride in rough air.

Often the flaps appear lower on the ground, but the
air loads will soon lift them considerably. One way to set
the correct angles on the ground is to get a couple of helpers
to push up on the flapperons, simulating air loads....

There's no big rush to dump the extra notch on takeoff -
take your time, and ease it off when everything's stable ...

What part of the country are you in ??

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 11:39 AM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Bobp,

I will give that a try, sounds like I will need an extra hand. One thing that
has puzzled me about the flap settings is that the pilot notes say that a max
of 18degree flap may be used but, the flaps go well beyond this positon???? I
am sure there is a simple explanation but...

Bob




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[rebel]

Hi Rick,

It's was from David that I bought the Rebel!!!!!

Regards,

BH


On 5/2/2003 7:51 AM, RJWH@OZEMAIL.COM.AU wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <rjwh@ozemail.com.au> Thu, 01 May 2003 23:39:10 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 23:39:10 -0800
-> Received: from mta08.mail.au.uu.net ([203.2.192.89])
EHLO=mta08.mail.mel.aone.net.au
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 221089250; Thu, 01 May 2003 23:39:08 -0800
-> Received: from v8t0e4 ([63.34.228.67]) by mta08.mail.mel.aone.net.au
-> with SMTP
-> id <20030502073923.GVII23243.mta08.mail.mel.aone.net.au@v8t0e4>;
-> Fri, 2 May 2003 17:39:23 +1000
-> Message-ID: <000c01c3107e$0e7554c0$43e4223f@v8t0e4>
-> From: "Rick Harper" <rjwh@ozemail.com.au>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Cc: "Webb, David" <david@salesprint.co.uk>
-> References: <1051860402@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
-> Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:40:07 +1000
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_0009_01C310D1.DEF34500"
-> X-Priority: 3
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
->
-> G'day again Bob !
->
-> I'm CCing this e-mail to David Webb .... he's on his third Rebel at
-> present .... Built the First Rebel outside of the US/Canada & the third
-> one finished anywhere !
->
-> Dave lives in Worcestershire and has just finished # 3 ... I'm sure he'd
-> be able to show you his plane & help out with engine & propeller info as
-> well !
->
-> Rick & Wendy Harper
-> 541R
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: rebel@dcsol.com
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:26 PM
-> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
->
->
-> Hi Bobp,
->
-> There must be an awful lot of slace in mine because I am certain they
-> go to
-> about 30degrees. This makes sense about the slackness. I have got
-> the
-> 6degree reflex but can see that if I do uprate the enginge I could add
->
-> 6degree more. Even the 6degrees makes a huge difference in the cruise
->
-> performance. I can see now what you meant when you said full flaps,
-> if I
-> used that on my (slack) flaps it would be the barn door scenario. Mind
-> you
-> what hp have you got because I would have thought the more power
-> available
-> during the run then more drag you could overcome and take advantage of
-> the
-> increased lift of the extra flaps, must be a real balanced equation??
->
-> I live in Cornwall, England (very small fields, originally from
-> Ontartio)
->
-> Thanks,
->
-> Bob
->
-> On 5/1/2003 11:21 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
->
-> -> From <apat@istar.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800 remote from
-> dcsol.com
-> -> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30
-> -0800
-> -> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
-> EHLO=app4.nasc.inter.net
-> -> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> -> id 192430234; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:29 -0800
-> -> Received: from 2cust189.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net
-> ([64.10.100.189])
-> -> by app4.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> -> id 19BNgO-0005YK-00
-> -> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
-> -> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> -> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> -> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> -> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> -> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> -> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> -> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
-> -> Message-Id: <E19BNgO-0005YK-00@app4.nasc.inter.net>
-> -> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
-> ->
-> ->
-> -> Hi Bob !
-> ->
-> -> Your flaps may hang down farther than that if there's a
-> -> bit of slack in the cable, but MAM says they should stop at
-> -> 6 degrees, 12 degrees, and 18 degrees (although you can go a
-> -> couple or 3 more ...). You should also have at least one
-> -> hole for 6 degrees negative - if you have over about 115 hp,
-> -> you can pull 2 holes - about 12 degrees negative. Each 6 degrees
-> -> negative should give approx. 3 mph faster cruise, AND give a
-> -> better ride in rough air.
-> ->
-> -> Often the flaps appear lower on the ground, but the
-> -> air loads will soon lift them considerably. One way to set
-> -> the correct angles on the ground is to get a couple of helpers
-> -> to push up on the flapperons, simulating air loads....
-> ->
-> -> There's no big rush to dump the extra notch on takeoff -
-> -> take your time, and ease it off when everything's stable ...
-> ->
-> -> What part of the country are you in ??
-> ->
-> -> ......bobp
-> ->
-> ->
-> ----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
-> -
-> -> At 11:39 AM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> -> >Hi Bobp,
-> -> >
-> -> >I will give that a try, sounds like I will need an extra hand. One
-> thing
-> that
-> -> >has puzzled me about the flap settings is that the pilot notes say
-> that a
-> max
-> -> >of 18degree flap may be used but, the flaps go well beyond this
-> positon???? I
-> -> >am sure there is a simple explanation but...
-> -> >
-> -> >Bob
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> ->
-> >*-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-> --
-> *
-> -> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> -> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> -> > Archives located at
-> http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> -> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> ->
-> >*-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-> --
-> *
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> -> >
-> ->
->
->
->
->
->
-> *------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> -*
-> To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
->
-> *------------------------------------------------------------------------
-> -*
->
->
->
->




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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Bob !

I wouldn't worry too much about how far the flaps hang
down - air loads will soon lift them to 18 degrees ! I would
still use full flaps, regardless of where yours are ...
(assuming you have the 3 positions, and not 2 <extra> holes ! ..)

I'm now flying my 4th Rebel, and the flapperons were
all different, but I still use all of it for t/o. The original
Rebel prototype had many extra flap positions, including a
'full down' that sounds even more extreme than yours - and I
still used all of it to get off !! These Rebels have run from the
80 hp. Rotax 912, to the 100 hp. O-235-C2C, to a 150 hp. O320-E2D -
so the engine size/weight shouldn't matter....

In fact, EMPTY WEIGHT is the real secret to quick takeoff !!
The Rebel with the 80 hp. Rotax 912 weighed about 635 lb., and could
take off & land in about 135 feet ..... the 150 hp. O-320 needs
almost 3 times that much - it weighs about 960 lb. !!

Try changing your prop pitch to give 2,400 + static rpm -
I think that'll be the quickest improvement !

.....bobp

-----------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 11:26 PM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:

Hi Bobp,

There must be an awful lot of slace in mine because I am certain they go to
about 30degrees. This makes sense about the slackness. I have got the
6degree reflex but can see that if I do uprate the enginge I could add
6degree more. Even the 6degrees makes a huge difference in the cruise
performance. I can see now what you meant when you said full flaps, if I
used that on my (slack) flaps it would be the barn door scenario. Mind you
what hp have you got because I would have thought the more power available
during the run then more drag you could overcome and take advantage of the
increased lift of the extra flaps, must be a real balanced equation??

I live in Cornwall, England (very small fields, originally from Ontartio)

Thanks,

Bob

On 5/1/2003 11:21 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800 remote from dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app4.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 192430234; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:29 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust189.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net ([64.10.100.189])
-> by app4.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19BNgO-0005YK-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
-> Message-Id: <E19BNgO-0005YK-00@app4.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
->
->
-> Hi Bob !
->
-> Your flaps may hang down farther than that if there's a
-> bit of slack in the cable, but MAM says they should stop at
-> 6 degrees, 12 degrees, and 18 degrees (although you can go a
-> couple or 3 more ...). You should also have at least one
-> hole for 6 degrees negative - if you have over about 115 hp,
-> you can pull 2 holes - about 12 degrees negative. Each 6 degrees
-> negative should give approx. 3 mph faster cruise, AND give a
-> better ride in rough air.
->
-> Often the flaps appear lower on the ground, but the
-> air loads will soon lift them considerably. One way to set
-> the correct angles on the ground is to get a couple of helpers
-> to push up on the flapperons, simulating air loads....
->
-> There's no big rush to dump the extra notch on takeoff -
-> take your time, and ease it off when everything's stable ...
->
-> What part of the country are you in ??
->
-> ......bobp
->
-> ----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
-> At 11:39 AM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bobp,
-> >
-> >I will give that a try, sounds like I will need an extra hand. One thing
that
-> >has puzzled me about the flap settings is that the pilot notes say that a
max
-> >of 18degree flap may be used but, the flaps go well beyond this
positon???? I
-> >am sure there is a simple explanation but...
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >*-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->




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[Rick Harper]

G'day again Bob !

I'm CCing this e-mail to David Webb .... he's on his third Rebel at
present .... Built the First Rebel outside of the US/Canada & the third
one finished anywhere !

Dave lives in Worcestershire and has just finished # 3 ... I'm sure he'd
be able to show you his plane & help out with engine & propeller info as
well !

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: rebel@dcsol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps


Hi Bobp,

There must be an awful lot of slace in mine because I am certain they
go to
about 30degrees. This makes sense about the slackness. I have got
the
6degree reflex but can see that if I do uprate the enginge I could add

6degree more. Even the 6degrees makes a huge difference in the cruise

performance. I can see now what you meant when you said full flaps,
if I
used that on my (slack) flaps it would be the barn door scenario. Mind
you
what hp have you got because I would have thought the more power
available
during the run then more drag you could overcome and take advantage of
the
increased lift of the extra flaps, must be a real balanced equation??

I live in Cornwall, England (very small fields, originally from
Ontartio)

Thanks,

Bob

On 5/1/2003 11:21 PM, APAT@ISTAR.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <apat@istar.ca> Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:30
-0800
-> Received: from nasc-out-1.nasc.inter.net ([203.176.60.253])
EHLO=app4.nasc.inter.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 192430234; Thu, 01 May 2003 15:41:29 -0800
-> Received: from 2cust189.tnt23.toronto.on.da.uu.net
([64.10.100.189])
-> by app4.nasc.inter.net with smtp (Exim 3.34 #1)
-> id 19BNgO-0005YK-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
-> X-Sender: crs1188@pop.ca.inter.net
-> X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
-> X-Orig-Mime-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
-> Subject: Re: 0-235 - flaps
-> Message-Id: <E19BNgO-0005YK-00@app4.nasc.inter.net>
-> Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 19:41:44 -0400
->
->
-> Hi Bob !
->
-> Your flaps may hang down farther than that if there's a
-> bit of slack in the cable, but MAM says they should stop at
-> 6 degrees, 12 degrees, and 18 degrees (although you can go a
-> couple or 3 more ...). You should also have at least one
-> hole for 6 degrees negative - if you have over about 115 hp,
-> you can pull 2 holes - about 12 degrees negative. Each 6 degrees
-> negative should give approx. 3 mph faster cruise, AND give a
-> better ride in rough air.
->
-> Often the flaps appear lower on the ground, but the
-> air loads will soon lift them considerably. One way to set
-> the correct angles on the ground is to get a couple of helpers
-> to push up on the flapperons, simulating air loads....
->
-> There's no big rush to dump the extra notch on takeoff -
-> take your time, and ease it off when everything's stable ...
->
-> What part of the country are you in ??
->
-> ......bobp
->
->
----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
-
-> At 11:39 AM 5/1/03 -0800, you wrote:
-> >Hi Bobp,
-> >
-> >I will give that a try, sounds like I will need an extra hand. One
thing
that
-> >has puzzled me about the flap settings is that the pilot notes say
that a
max
-> >of 18degree flap may be used but, the flaps go well beyond this
positon???? I
-> >am sure there is a simple explanation but...
-> >
-> >Bob
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
*
-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at
http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm
-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
->

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
*
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





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